Sweet Tone for Waltzes Ballads and Airs

[Percy]

As most of you know, I've been on a "quest" to create that sweet tone similar to Jay Ungar and Aly Bain. I'm not so much interested in playing fast tunes.

Hardy Kefes has been guiding me through the process, and I thought I'd give a quick outline here of what he's been telling me to do -- not that I can do any of it correctly -- yet!

1) Keep my left wrist straight.
2) Don't "grip" the fiddle with my left hand.
3) Move my left elbow in harmony with my right elbow as I change strings.
4) Keep my right wrist relaxed.
5) Bow mostly from the wrist.
6) Bow about 3/4" from the bridge.
7) Tilt the bow towards the scroll.
8) Use a light touch with my fingers on the strings -- just enough pressure to get a good tone.
9) Truly finish a note before I move to the next note.

So I guess right now, I'm on a "9-Step Program" towards beautiful tone. Wow -- am I ever going to be able to do all of these at the same time?

[Dave Light]

Knowing you as we do from the evidence of your many posts on several fiddle websites, Carol, there is no doubt that you'll achieve your end. The only one of Hardy's teaching points that I might take issue with (notice I said might: it depends) is Number 7. I appreciate that a lot of old-time fiddlers are heavily into the "bow tilt", as are fiddlers in some other musical genres, as well. My own teacher, a classically trained violinist from Romania, advises againsy it, in favour of maintaining full contact between the hair and the string. This is especially the case ( he went on) when you're playing music with varying speeds, textures, and volume levels.

But, hey, Hardy's got a lot of teaching years under his Teutonic belt, so I hesitate to get in his face about anything technique-wise!

[Percy]

He really stresses the bow tilt for good tone... Hardy was a classically-trained violinist first and then took up fiddling, so he has feet in both worlds. I'm wondering what he'll think about what your teacher is telling you.

With all the conflicting advice out there, it's a wonder anybody can fiddle anything! *S*

[Mary Margaret]

My classical teacher - a professional in both classical and country agrees with Dave - no tilting. My Irish teacher doesn't go in for the tilting either.

I imagine there are tons of opinions on this. But since I've got 100% agreement from my two teachers I'm sticking with them. I don't always have 100% agreement from the two of them!

-MM

[Percy]

I'm going to have to go with Hardy though... he's an oustanding player and I love his tone. Maybe tonight when he gets home he'll weigh in on the subject...

[George Fowler]

OK, I'll wade in. I was classically trained (though that was many years ago) and full-contact with the bow for good tone was the rule from my teacher. A bow maker in our community mentioned to me that when rehairing bows he will ask the violinist (or fiddler) if he tends to use the "scroll" side of the hairs more & will often place more hair on that side if the answer is yes. For me he evenly distributes the hair across the entire width. So there is obviously some personal preference involved with this decision. When I teach students I suggest a full-contact technique for good tone.

Interestingly Leopold Auer (in his classic little book "Violin Playing as I Teach It") makes no mention of "proper" hair/string contact in his chapter on tone production. He takes the "more than one way to skin the cat" approach, acknowledging many approaches which can lead to good tone. His summary comment: The question of tone production, we might as well acknowledge at once, is not primarily a matter of the hairs on the stick, of bow on strings, [etc .....] All these really signify nothing, absolutely nothing when it comes to the production of pure and crystalline tone. To obtain a tone of this quality the student .... must be willing to bring to bear on the problem all his intelligence, all the mental and spiritual concentration of which he is capable. To describe in detail how the bow should be held [etc.] presents a task of well-night insurmountable difficulty. But what holds good in the case of all other arts is true also of the violin. Natural instinct, physical predisposition, the construction of the muscles of the hand and of the bow-arm each plays a part in determining the ultimate effect.

Best to all
George

[Jessica]

Well, let me add a vote in Hardy's favor. My instructor was classically trained and trained by several prominent Irish fiddlers; the only one I can think of atm is Kevin Burke, and she goes with the bow tilt as well.

Steps 2 & 8 seem to be my greatest difficulty; #9 is a challenge, just not as big a challenge as the other two are proving to be.

[George Shepherd]

7) Tilt the bow towards the scroll.

Since reading this, I have adopted this way of bowing. However, I have been watching a number of Aly Bain videos and notice that he appears to tilt his bow in the opposite direction, i.e., towards the bridge.
I tried this a couple of times but found the bow obstructed my view of the strings.

[George Shepherd]

Percy, it's been over two months since you started this discussion. How are you getting on with your quest?

George

[Stephen J. De Vito]

Hey, Percy! Nice to see you here. As you know, I'm also in search of the "holy grail" of sweet tone. I think I need to make a copy of your list, and tack it up in my practice space.

[Percy]

It's getting much better... I have moments where I'm almost close to getting that sweet tone. Each day I seem to become more consistent. I've also upgraded my strings to the Thomastik Infield Titaniums and started using a different rosin (Oliv Green) -- and have a new fiddle (a Gliga Guarnari model). These changes also seem to have given me a richer tone.

Of course, I'm just starting to put in the smallest amounts of vibrato as well. I can't wait until I can add vibrato where I want to without thinking about it. When that happens, I'll be a happy woman.

[George Shepherd]

Percy, I'm glad to hear you are getting closer to your target. I don't know if you saw my post re: Aly Bain's e-mail? Apparently he uses Prim strings( medium gauge which is the green packs.) He doesn't like the E so uses a Super flexible, made, he thinks, by Thomastic and they are chrome wound with a rope core.

George